What If Rats Could Save the World? Turns Out, They Already Are! With Dr. Cindy Fast (Episode #222)
What if the next breakthrough in global health and safety didn’t come from Silicon Valley…but from a whiskered hero with banana breath? Neuroscientist Dr. Cindy Fast takes us into the astonishing work of APOPO—a nonprofit organization training African Giant Pouched Rats to do life-saving work across the globe.
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About Our Guest:
In a world overflowing with sophisticated tech and frightening news stories, what if I told you that one of the most powerful life-saving tools we have…is a rat?
Yes, a rat—but not just any rat.
Trained by an organization called APOPO, these African Giant Pouched Rats are changing the game in global health and safety. They can detect landmines faster and more accurately than traditional methods; they can sniff out tuberculosis in human samples at lightning speed, identifying cases that traditional labs miss; and now, they’re being trained for disaster response—searching for survivors in collapsed buildings.
At the epicenter of this groundbreaking work is Dr. Cindy Fast, a behavioral neuroscientist with a Ph.D. from UCLA and a postdoctoral fellowship at Rutgers. She left a prestigious academic path to lead Training and Research at APOPO, and all her years studying behavioral neuroscience have found their perfect home—not in a high-tech lab—but in a field where science meets grit, empathy, and the purest forms of human ingenuity.
A Bold Mission in a Fragile World
APOPO—which stands for ‘Anti-Persoonsmijnen Ontmijnende Product Ontwikkeling,’ or, in English, ‘Anti-Personnel Landmines Detection Product Development’—was born from a simple, powerful question:
Could animals help solve problems that human technology alone has failed to address?
The answer is yes—over and over again.
Originally founded to tackle the deadly legacy of landmines in post-conflict countries, APOPO began training rats to sniff out explosives hidden in the ground. These HeroRATs (as they’re lovingly called) are incredibly effective; they’re light enough not to trigger the mines, and they can cover a minefield in a fraction of the time it takes humans with metal detectors. One rat can search an area the size of a tennis court in under 30 minutes, and they typically work on minefields in teams of about a doze rats. This means that where one human might take four days to cover a minefield a single rat can complete the job in half an hour!
To date, APOPO’s rats have helped return over 75 million square meters of land to communities all over. That’s millions of people who can now safely farm, build, and walk through their own neighborhoods again—and that was just the beginning.
The Gentle Giants: Heroes With Whiskers
Let’s talk about the rats themselves: these aren’t your average alleyway rodents. African giant pouched rats are bright, curious, and about the size of a small housecat. Despite what cartoons (or Rob Reiner films) may have taught us, these rats aren’t creepy or dangerous—in fact, they’re very sweet-tempered, and seem to genuinely enjoy the work. (Wait until you hear Dr. Fast tell some stories about some of the individual rats and their personalities—you’ll be truly charmed.)
What makes them perfect for this work, though, is their exceptional sense of smell, calm temperament, and high intelligence. As APOPO puts it, their rats are “too small to set off landmines, but smart enough to save lives.”
Now, they’re being trained to do even more: some of these wonderful creatures go into disaster zones, equipped with tiny, lightweight backpacks that hold a camera and microphone. The goal? To locate and transmit the whereabouts of survivors trapped beneath rubble after earthquakes or building collapses—getting help to them faster at a time when every minute matters.
From Landmines to TB…to the Future
As we look to the future, there are even more places for this organization to go. On top of having rats trained to detect landmines and rescue trapped people, they also have a program for tuberculosis detection—a growing crisis in many parts of the world.
Their rats are able to detect TB in sputum (phlegm) samples with previously unheard of speed and sensitivity, even when standard lab tests miss it. This has enormous implications for crowded hospitals and rural clinics all over the world where diagnostic tools are scarce or overwhelmed.
And as if that weren’t enough, the organization is also piloting programs where rats are trained to sniff out trafficked wildlife products—like pangolin scales or illegal ivory—hidden in shipping containers. It’s one more way their keen noses and fast learning curves are helping tackle tough global problems.
What’s especially lovely about all this? it reminds us that solutions don’t always have to be high-tech to be high-impact. It’s low-cost; it’s scalable; and it benefits the rats rather than harming them—they seem to genuinely enjoy the work that they do.
A Scientist Who Followed the Wonder
Dr. Cindy Fast didn’t set out to work with rats in the field. Her journey began in academic neuroscience, studying animal cognition and behavioral systems—but when the opportunity came along to combine that expertise with real-world humanitarian work, she jumped in with both feet.
Now, she lives and works in Tanzania, where APOPO’s training center is located. She oversees the refinement of the rats’ training protocols, helps build new applications for their talents, and collaborates with global health and safety organizations looking for innovative tools.
What’s clear when you speak with Dr. Fast is that her wonder for these animals—and her deep respect for what’s possible when science meets mission—is absolutely contagious. She talks about their different personalities; they have a mine-detecting rat she described as “serious” and “diligent” when it comes to his job; there’s also a TB-detecting rat who loves her job so much that she does a happy dance when she’s put in the enclosure and squeaks in protest when taken out.
As we talked, she said something that has stuck with me:
“People assume intelligence has to look a certain way, but these rats are showing us another story. They’re solving complex problems, saving human lives, and they seem to take joy in the work. What more could we ask for?”
This is what can happen when we look beyond our initial impressions of things and learn to think differently about the world around us: New partnerships can be born, and we can create new ways of living that benefit everyone involved.
A New Lens on Ingenuity
There’s something magical about the way APOPO has flipped the script. They’ve taken an animal most people overlook—or even fear—and turned it into a symbol of cleverness, resilience, and hope, and in doing so they’ve also given us something I think we’re all craving these days: a new example of what’s possible when we trust the ingenuity of nature and the goodness of people.
When I asked Dr. Fast what she sees when she looks at a HeroRAT, she smiled and said:
“I see possibility.”
She reminds us to “stay open,” as there is always something surprising to realize next. In an age when innovation often feels reserved for elite labs or billion-dollar budgets, APOPO is a shining example of how all kinds of elegant solutions can come from the margins. It’s a reminder that we don’t always have to invent the future from scratch—sometimes, we just have to listen to what the natural world is already whispering (…or squeaking!)
References Mentioned:
Chapters:
- 00:00 – Intro & Welcome
- 04:06 – Hero Rats History
- 07:08 – TB Detection
- 14:20 – Clearing Landmines
- 17:31 – Break
- 20:10 – About the Rats
- 24:28 – Search & Rescue Rats
- 29:45 – Minefields to Ricefields Project
- 46:35 – Hero Dogs Ukraine
- 49:13 – Funding & Support
- 52:15 – Get Involved
- 1:01:50 – Stay Open-Minded
- 1:05:20 – Closing
